January 2017. The two-stages format is finally out of the way in the J.League, and Urawa Red Diamonds have just given up an incredible title in the Championship Stage to Kashima Antlers, who then proceeded to almost upset Real Madrid in the final of the FIFA Club World Cup in Japan. Meanwhile, a Spanish wave of new managers is hitting the Japanese championship, also in the second division.
Tokushima Vortis have decided to take that way – which seemed strange at the time, since we were talking of a club with almost no foreign managers (outside of Edinho, between 1996 and 1998). A club that just came back from a first J1 experience – after winning the J2 play-offs in 2013 and scoring just 14 points in 34 games in their maiden J1 campaign. The club of Yoichiro Kakitani, Shinji Kobayashi, and not so much more.
Probably the club was looking for a proper change – and that’s why they looked out for a Spanish head coach. At the time, the newly-hired head coach had already some Asian-based experiences, and he’ll start a Spanish trend that will stand the test of time (it went decently with Dani Poyatos, not so much with Beñat Labaien). Curious of that choice, I asked the head coach for an interview into his second year in Tokushima. Surprisingly, he agreed.
It was April 2018 the first time I talked with Ricardo Rodríguez. An available person, eager to leave a mark – against all odds, because Tokushima Vortis were not looking as a growing reality. Seven years later, we could say he was right when he said to me “I’m very happy in Tokushima. I can make interesting soccer here”. And that’s why when Kashiwa Reysol announced his hiring, I wanted to talk with him on how things have changed in these years.
Hi, Ricardo! It’s been some time from our first exchange – I wanted to ask you about your return in Japan. You were in Tokushima, then Saitama, then a year in China. How did the chance of returning to Japan materialise itself?
I’m very happy to be back in Japan. I’ve always been happy to work here, for many reasons. Great professionalism of the players and the clubs, everything is very well-organised. And the league is so competitive. My family and I are happy to live in Japan. And when Reysol came forward, I didn’t hesitate.
I know how great this club is, and the potential they have. The last years have been difficult, but now it’s time to grow together. And it’s a club near to Tokyo, where I’m happy to live – I was living here also when I was coaching in Saitama. This surely represents a good next step for my career and I’m happy to be here.
Speaking of that, you mentioned your previous experiences. When we talked the first time, you were beginning your adventure in Tokushima, but it’s been a long time from 2017, and I wanted to task you over that experience.
Four years, first trophy for the club, the promotion to J1 – a very good developing trajectory. How did that chance come by and what’s left of that experience?
It wasn’t easy, but I think everyone at the club – including the sporting director – understood and embraced my ideas. We tried to get players who were a fit for my playing style, but in the second year it was a bit harder because some players left for J1. And then it happened again in the Summer of 2018 (author’s note: first Daiki Watari, Kazuaki Mawatari left for J1 teams, then Yatsunori Shimaya, Leo Osaki and Ryogo Yamasaki did the same).
At that point, we had to reinvent ourselves. It was a tough moment, but the third year was very good – we got very close to promotion and then lost the play-out against Shonan Bellmare. But it was the time when the mentality of the club and the owner changed. We understood we were 30 minutes away from getting promoted before conceding a draw. But then other five players left and we had to start over again (author’s note: Jordy Buijs, Naoki Nomura, Yuji Kajikawa and Ryuji Sugimoto all left).
2020 was hard, because we had COVID – but luckily our idea was very clear, and the players followed it. The choice of players was fitting for my model on the pitch, and they were hungry and with potential. After four years of hard work, we won a title (the J2 League title) and I’m still very proud of this, because we fought a lot for it. It was a long-term process, working with everyone – sporting director, staff, players, and the supporters.
The promotion made me very happy, and getting your first title as a club always helps pushing forward. It stays in the memory of the fans, you made a little part of history. Giving my best to reach this high-level of performance for Tokushima was a moment of pride for me, absolutely.
You mentioned trophies, and I think the experience in Japan was full of those because the time in Saitama worked out well. Emperor’s Cup, Japanese Super Cup, building on the final win of the AFC Champions League – bummer it lasted just two years. Which memories do you hold from that experience? Development was there.
In the beginning, it wasn’t easy – we had to change many things at the club. Nonetheless, the players understood very well the playing style. We needed a bit of time – three or four months, plus getting some players in the Summer helped us reaching the level we needed. And then we won the Emperor’s Cup, which was the gate to qualify for the AFC Champions League. From there, final in the Eastern part and then winning it all – which meant participating at the next FIFA Club World Cup.
It was a wonderful achievement, but it wasn’t easy. It was a two years-project to get Urawa Reds to that point, and they’re a big club, obsessed with winning again the league title. But it’s not simple, because you can do so many things well, but then we qualify again to the ACL because we won it. It wasn’t simple to put everything together – very little time to get players in the market and we won the Emperor’s Cup, but late in a very long season.
On December 19th, we won the Emperor’s Cup, and on January 7th or 8th, we had to go back to work. It wasn’t easy to sign players in such a short amount of time, plus we got a cluster of coronavirus in the second year in Saitama. So it was hard to start well 2022 – but in the Summer we were performing very well. Unfortunately, after 2022, we parted ways. I still think the project could have continued, but at the last moment the club decided otherwise.
And that’s where you took a break? And how China was a chance all of the sudden?
After Saitama, I had a year not training at all. I was looking for opportunities in Europe, but in the end nothing came by. And it was difficult for me not coaching a team for such a long time. I was indeed tired and the break helped me recharging my batteries and living other life experiences (staying with my family or in Spain), but then in December 2023 an offer from China came through.
Wuhan Three Towns wanted me. The project wasn’t easy, because I was pitched a certain idea from new investors, but when I signed and I actually landed in China, the investor decided not to invest in the club. I was a bit surprised – the old owner kept the club afloat, but we had some difficulties, especially economically. But this tough experience in Wuhan was good for me, because it strengthened me.
I was working in a different environment, in a difficult situation with the players – who sometimes didn’t get their salaries. It’s also true, though, that you can mature and get a good experience from such a difficult situation. Therefore I’m very grateful to have worked in China – even if the project wasn’t what I was presented with, I managed to make it through (author’s note: Wuhan survived in 11th place in 2024, just two years after winning the Chinese Super League).
Thanks for that! And about Japan, I don’t want to nail you down to a comparison between Tokushima and Saitama as experiences, but those were different.
On one side you had to develop a full project in a club that usually is not in J1, and on the other side you have a club with highest petitions to win the league, with one of the highest attending clubs in the league in terms of crowd average.
Which one was probably the most fitting for you and gave you the best time when you were in Japan?
For me, obviously Tokushima was perfect. The process we had there was almost perfect. We didn’t get promoted immediately – when we had a very good team – but we had to reinvent ourselves more than once, and we made it. In the end, we won the championship and reached the goal we had. The way of working was amazing. In 2018, we could have selected more fitting players for our style – they were good, but not the fit we were looking for.
From that experience, we learned a lot – I just had lunch a few days ago with the former sporting director in Tokushima and we were reminiscing of those times. Tokushima was very good – but the experience in Saitama and with Urawa Reds gave me so much. It’s another level of club, of course – because the moment I joined the club, I immediately realised the club was in a good moment economically despite COVID. So there were certain expectations.
For example, people were naturally expecting that we would have qualified for the FIFA Club World Cup. But we had to renovate the squad a bit – we had many players in their 30s -, and I said it was impossible, because we had to do many things to renovate the club in general. At the end of the day, it may sound strange, but we made it – so the experience in Saitama was good too.
And now, Kashiwa. I think you’re in the middle of the range between Tokushima and Urawa, because it’s clearly an historical club in J1, but as you said, they struggled a bit in the last years. I think your pick as well was very interesting because in the last years, the riso was basically tied to mostly two figures as a coach, so Nelsinho and Ihara.
I saw your presentation at the club on YouTube and so I know already a few thoughts that you have about the upcoming season, but I wanted to ask you which expectations do you have for this year?
Is it just results or also, as you already tried in Tokushima and Saitama to establish a certain brand of football with Kashiwa? I think the goal of Diego in Fukuoka probably plays into that kind of perspective.
You’re right – the main idea is surely to create an identity, a recognisable style of football we want to pursue. We’ve been talking about this in meetings – we want people to identify Kashiwa Reysol with an aggressive and attacking brand of football. After that, the second step is selecting the right players – and I’m very happy with the decisions we’ve taken in that department. And the players seem to have a good reaction to it.
They have hunger, full attention and they are very professional – all of them. I’m very, very happy about it – I enjoy training every day and working with them. I can feel they’re embracing the idea of football I want. That’s good, because at the end of the day, the players are the main protagonists on the pitch, and they have to execute whatever we prepared in practice.
It’s not easy to defend well, playing with this aggressiveness – it’s true as well that some of the players were with me in other adventures. Our goal is to put again Kashiwa Reysol to the top, making them one of the best clubs in Japan. The best times for the club were between 2010 and 2014, and our target is to aim to that level and maybe challenge to win a title. As a coach, I clearly want to keep winning titles in Japan.
The club as well wants those memories back. They want to win a title again (author’s note: the last one was the J2 League title in 2019), and I feel this is something deeply-rooted in the players too. They want this project because we have the common ambition of winning something, together (author’s note: Reysol definitely needed a reboot in identity, so Rodríguez seems a perfect fit in that sense).
Final question over a philosophical question. You joined Tokushima Vortis back in 2017 – and eight years ago, the J.League was very different from now. J1 had just abandoned the two-stages format, just to name one. Japan were in the World Cup, but both 2018 & 2022 were significant for the football movement.
Since you, as a coach, went through all this development in different clubs, how do you see this evolution? What’s been the most interesting stuff you have seen in this decade? And do you see even more potential for the league to develop as a whole on the world stage?
The most significant step has been the improvement of the players and the number of the ones leaving for Europe. When I joined Tokushima Vortis, it wasn’t easy to find a Japanese player in Europe, but now… look at how many are moving, featuring in leagues like Eredivisie, or Liga Portugal. And they’re playing also in the Premier League, in Ligue 1, in Serie A – that’s the most important point.
To make a comparison, look at the J1 League and the Saudi Pro League. Saudi Arabia are trying to grow, but the players stay in Saudi Arabia – there’s a difference between the two leagues. Some matches are huge, like in China as well – but in terms of attendance, organisation of the league, and competitiveness on the pitch, there’s nothing like the J.League at the moment.
It’s true, though, that the league is losing some of the best players because the moment they receive a good offer from Europe, they’re out of the door. The players want to improve because it’s in their blood – to grow. Nevertheless, there are good players from the universities, or even in J2 and J3, where you can see solid profiles. And that’s the reason why, for me, J.League is number one championship in Asia.
We can only thank Ricardo Rodríguez for the time he dedicated to us. We wish him the best for his return in Japan and, for now, all seems to have gone well – with Reysol starting with 10 points in the first five games. We’ll look forward to this 2025 season and the progress they can make him. You can discover more about him on his website, or just see his grit and passion in the dugout.
